Curse

Mcsnake85 · Feb 14, 2010, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishX

Faster=better in PvE.

sure...but you cant say that all other chars are INFERIOR..you can say : they are F***k SLOW..not inferior.

IrishX · Feb 14, 2010, 02:10 PM // 14:10

If faster=better, and perma sins are the fastest, then they are the best. That means everything else is not the best, therefore inferior.

Mcsnake85 · Feb 14, 2010, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishX

If faster=better, and perma sins are the fastest, then they are the best. That means everything else is not the best, therefore inferior.

Lol..just to let you know an ele can run perma and deal more damage than a sin...and perma sliver suck with 12..ele with sliver deal a lot of damage (16 in earth magic)...ele can run tank build too and do a lo of things...btw he/she is very slow..and not always sins are best =)

Agar · Feb 14, 2010, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustache Mayhem

what I loved about this game from the beginning was the ability to make builds that could solo areas.. if you go back to 2005 we had the 55 bond monk- which was op as it doesn't even need upkeep.. they nerfed it and we had to start using ps instead (whats ironic is it's possible to do this again nowdays)

so alot of peeps started using the 55 and necro combo to farm the uw after the bond nerf.. I just farmed it solo same as before with a pretty good time.. then they put in the nightmares.. people cried XD.. farmed it solo same as before just wanded the little guys (ecto was going for around 14k these days).. my ritualist was doing some pretty sweet farms like all the oni in rheas crater and in factions, the deep used to have chests right at the beginning after you opened up the first room.. solo rit I got sooo many zodiac weapons before they moved the chests up.. uw I eventually switched to elem as it was alot faster

drokars runs took a bit of talent to get down there before nightfall.. fun runs especially then you got a full bus.. there was even a running guild that charged peeps to teach them the run.. thought that was going too far!

there were scandals early in gw also.. like who can forget when the trader was selling ectos for less than it was buying them back XD alot of peeps got rich that day- and it was never rolled back

running missions solo was another challenge that was pretty fun pre-nightfall.. SF sins wasn't even used back then, actually alot of people deleted their sins- you ran on a solo warrior usually (thirsty river and elonas) or (like hells) a elem and henches

when nightfall came out there was some super skills available to all classes.. as a farmer I had pretty much done it all at that point.. sorrows furnace solo's with a balth warrior (pre-scatter) -=] ranger solo farmed alot of bosses that dropped greens in both proph and factions.. these weren't things the average peanuthead was doing and was very profitable..

guys like rachtoh made guides on farming spiders for shards in fow solo.. that was pretty ingeniuous.. there was alot of fun in finding ways to solo elite areas of the game

this time was great for farmers.. then nightfall introduced heros, I can see why they did this, the console crowd was starting to pour in.. your average guy was having trouble using henchmen only to get through the content (I don't see how but that was the complaint at the time).. this is responsible for what we see today imo.. I actually quit for a long time and didn't even come back till beginning of this year

I came back and saw shockingly there was blanket statements on what sucked and what worked.. same lot of guys who run their mouth but they don't actually do anything they talk about.. wiki is to blame for alot of this I think.. peeps instead of thinking for themselves like we used to- they go to the wiki and that's the extent to what they know about the game

this is the majority of guildwars outside of PVP I believe- the community has always been bad, just ask gaiyle about what happened in shang jea over that one holiday years back on factions release- I knew there were braindead people playing the game but to have them all in one district was funny as hell.. if your anet and you want sales.. you have to cater to this group.. there's no way around it, they have the numbers

come to the issue today with sf.. sf imo isn't op as I see many things in the game op now.. you look at all the builds used to solo areas then maybe.. but pve/luxon skills and hero's made this game pretty much a joke to beat.. you don't need att points to make them work either.. then we had cons introduced.. you might as well be in godmode with a conset up.. there's a lot of op in this game nowdays- if you are going to take away the top 2 used in speed farming take them all out- let's get real

the only things worth farming nowdays are in the dungeons.. guys who've played through it all don't need the money, we've had our fow armor before most of these guys even bought the first copy.. it's the fun of doing something the rest can't- I mean seriously show me a pug who can do 20 minute uw as an example XD you can't cause they don't exist.. I went back to my greedy policy of not making guides as I was starting to open up this year.. if farmers weren't so fast to post their accomplishments on the forum.. we'd probably see the clueless doing their 2 hour runs and not feeling inferior

Great post, havent seen one of these for a while...

reaper with no name · Feb 14, 2010, 07:29 PM // 19:29

GW is not a solo game. It is a team game. Areas were designed with the intention that it would require a full team to get through it. If you can do it with one, then that is by definition overpowered and broken.

And anyone who seriously thinks that consets and heros are more overpowered than SF needs to check into a mental institution.

Atlantis29 · Feb 14, 2010, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

GW is not a solo game. It is a team game. Areas were designed with the intention that it would require a full team to get through it. If you can do it with one, then that is by definition overpowered and broken.

And anyone who seriously thinks that consets and heros are more overpowered than SF needs to check into a mental institution.

LF Players *echo*

empty towns = no people to team with = H/H = might as well just solo it

Kaleban · Feb 14, 2010, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

GW is not a solo game. It is a team game. Areas were designed with the intention that it would require a full team to get through it. If you can do it with one, then that is by definition overpowered and broken.

And anyone who seriously thinks that consets and heros are more overpowered than SF needs to check into a mental institution.

GW has become a solo game, with a huge majority of areas being ghost towns. ANet isn't stupid, they know as the game gets older and players move away, the remaining players will have less options for party play, hence heros and such.

Consets also help obviously, giving unstrippable buffs party wide, allowing otherwise underpowered teams to succeed, or good teams to steamroll most areas.

The FACT that between PvE skills, consets, and customizable heros allows any PC character to steamroll nearly any area with no help from other players makes those issues much more powerful and flexible than SF. SF allows one or two base classes to "perma" which is good for farming feathers and greens.

But to do most of the end-game content requires a full party of players, of which only one or two sins are ever needed, usually as non damaging tanks and snarers.

The real problem which anyone with a brain can tell is static mobs/skillsets, and poor reward/time ratios in most if not all content. Mixed with the problem that most of the game is dead, you'll never hear "Surmia Run" unless its a noob or Xunlai mission.

ANet may nerf SF and soon, but its not the problem. Anyone who seriously thinks SF is more of a problem than OP PvE skills, static and unchanging mobs/areas, poor reward/time ratios, consets and more needs to have their head examined.

own age myname · Feb 14, 2010, 08:23 PM // 20:23

I'm really hoping SF doesn't die. It's not like you don't team with people anymore because of SF. Sure, SF is OPed, but it's fun to use.

BrianB9663 · Feb 15, 2010, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristlebane

So by your way of thinking, countries could "help the economy" by creating zillions of money and hand out on the market.

No, what would happen in GW if Shadow Form was left untouched or even simplified, is that certain people would have so much money that inflation would run skyhigh. Non-SF farmers would basically be forced to make their own SF farmers to be able to afford things themselves.

In case you have'nt noticed that has already happened.

reaper with no name · Feb 15, 2010, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

GW has become a solo game, with a huge majority of areas being ghost towns. ANet isn't stupid, they know as the game gets older and players move away, the remaining players will have less options for party play, hence heros and such.

Consets also help obviously, giving unstrippable buffs party wide, allowing otherwise underpowered teams to succeed, or good teams to steamroll most areas.

The FACT that between PvE skills, consets, and customizable heros allows any PC character to steamroll nearly any area with no help from other players makes those issues much more powerful and flexible than SF. SF allows one or two base classes to "perma" which is good for farming feathers and greens.

But to do most of the end-game content requires a full party of players, of which only one or two sins are ever needed, usually as non damaging tanks and snarers.

The real problem which anyone with a brain can tell is static mobs/skillsets, and poor reward/time ratios in most if not all content. Mixed with the problem that most of the game is dead, you'll never hear "Surmia Run" unless its a noob or Xunlai mission.

ANet may nerf SF and soon, but its not the problem. Anyone who seriously thinks SF is more of a problem than OP PvE skills, static and unchanging mobs/areas, poor reward/time ratios, consets and more needs to have their head examined.

A solo game is not the same as soloing an area. If you are playing the game solo, you have a full party, and are therefore playing the areas as they were meant to be played. Heroes are, as you said, the natural answer to the lack of players.

However, soloing an area is a problem, because the game was not intended to be played this way. The reason GW is a great game is because of the team aspect of it. SF removes this entirely in most areas of the game, as well as nearly all of damage mechanics in the game, which effectively removes the monsters, and so on and so forth. It snowballs and snowballs and snowballs. And there is really not much of a way to deal with this except to nerf the skill itself.

Static mobs breed gimmicks, yes. Is this a problem? Well, most players here would seem to think so. But some don't (I myself am neutral on that issue). And even if it is a problem, it's certainly nowhere near the size of SF. SF is the ultimate gimmick; a gimmick that is so powerful, pervasive, and versatile, that it would be able to beat even unpredictable mobs most of the time.

Overpowered PvE skills are both a problem and a necessary evil, because due to the way the game is currently set up, some classes need them just to have a place in PvE at all (see Paragons and Mesmers). To remove them now would create even more problems than they solve (though hypothetically, if you did do that and then solved the resulting balance issues, the game would indeed be better than it is now).

All consets do is make players more powerful by a certain amount. However, the effect is uniform, so it's not nearly as much of a problem as some things. It doesn't effect class balance, for example. However, I think it's clear that we have different priorities when it comes to the game (for me, class balance is at the top, with everything else a very distant second).

Yelling @ Cats · Feb 15, 2010, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

All consets do is make players more powerful by a certain amount. However, the effect is uniform, so it's not nearly as much of a problem as some things. It doesn't effect class balance, for example. However, I think it's clear that we have different priorities when it comes to the game (for me, class balance is at the top, with everything else a very distant second).

Well, consets do effect balance.

For example...Weapon of Quickening. Not the greatest elite in the game, but is rendered absolutely useless in any sense of the word by consets.

Consets also render Superior Absorption runes obsolete since the 5 damage reduction overrides it.

Small, but significant.

Lord Chris Bravo · Feb 15, 2010, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Good riddance to SF if i may say so myself ... annoying skill .. yes it's usefull but it just made everything practically worthless and it also made everything so solo-able. In my opinion i don't know how many people agree with me here but i think playing a game is about the community feel and playing with other people, last thing i want to do whenever i play a game is sit down and play on my own. It just kills my liking for any game

Mcsnake85 · Feb 15, 2010, 12:13 PM // 12:13

(First of all sorry for my bad english, i try write better as i can)
I think that everyone need a choice...
Play in team is cool, but if i want play alone no one must say "no you cant"...
SF need to be nerf?Ok agree...but give me a Fireball that can cause a lot of damage and a way to take enemies down.."GOD MODE" is necessary if THEY DONT GIVE US skill to fight,if they give us good skill to deal massive damage no one need SF to play, all take sf because all skills dont deal damage.
Take for example Tombs...Dryders deal me 180 damage with a fireball,that mean they need 3/4 fireball to kill a player with 600 hp...try to cast a fireball to a dryder : you can deal at max 100 damage and im sure their hp are not 600.
My point of view is simple : no one cry for SF if you can take down a mob in 3/4 skills like they do with you (FOR NM...In HM its a different thing)...
I dont understand what wrong with GW...Mobs are stronger even in NM,sometimes you cant face 1 vs 1 because thee kill you...if ppl scam you, they ban for weeks and dont give back items, skills SUCKS and those that work good risk to be nerfed...sometimes do do thing you need help to do things, and if ppl dont help you you are F****D because you cant do all alone...Heroes suck hard and discord cant resolve all your problems...
Really guyz,this is so sad...if they want nerf SF who care?BUT GIVE US SOME DAMAGE SKILLS...

Raiku · Feb 15, 2010, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Bring back my Ursan!

I miss going in a team of 8 Ursans and just steamrolling a area. It brought a lot a people together :*(

The only people left out were people who didn't have Eotn. Now people are crying about Shadowform :\

enter_the_zone · Feb 15, 2010, 01:02 PM // 13:02

SF can solo a lot, but it can't solo everything, and for most non-farming content it's actually slower than a decent team build.

A lot of the QQ about SF stems from exclusively Sin teams, with each sin soloing a specific part of an area. This is primarily UW and FoW. As far as I can see, anything which gets people to team together is surely a good thing in GW now, even if they all have to be sins.

And lets get one thing straight... I suck as a perma, I can't even reach the Chaos plains, let alone kill anything once I get there. I don't use perma for much, and I've made more money and gold unids in a week MoP bombing raptors than I ever have as a perma. Mainly, because I suck as a perma, but also because it can be really boring, and I can't be bothered with it.

Ramblings over, Permas have been in the game for so long now that it's stupid to remove them. The same is true for 600, though that's even more stupid because that does take more skill than perma and has been around even longer. But, DTSC means you can max Kurzick in a reasonable amount of time, so 600 has to go.

Because, as seems to be Anet policy, anything a bit fun must be mercilessly nerfed into obscurity. Bye bye XTH, bye bye Ursan (and about 50 other things I can't remember right now), bye bye perma, bye bye 600, bye bye players, bye bye GW.

GG QQers, GG Live Team.. objective achieved, switching servers to hosting Aion and GW2

Deatgs Corrupter · Feb 15, 2010, 01:07 PM // 13:07

the sf nerf is imminent who really cares just try playing with a chance of failure? and don't give me bs about sf sometimes failing in dayway because what i mean is that if used properly there is no chance of failure.
point about ToPK is that it is supposed to be hard... in those "elite areas" a monk actually heals you and generally you have a designated tank and a bonder so damage is reduced to like 70 and then ur monk heals you, if u r a wammo tank then this can be brought down easily and if u just use ele or warrior tank with obsi flesh then... oh wow no spells affect you so its /dance
but if u want to make sure they dont use skills the it is shadowform.
the thing with shadow form is that i love it but at the same time have no clue as to why it is the game. everyone always says it destroyed the game and pugs. nightfall destroyed the game with its heroes. expansion into 3 full campaigns destroyed the game, announcement of gw2 and scrapping of 6 monthly expansions destroyed the game.... it goes on and on.
however it does allows hard areas to be done very quickly and tht sucks, but lets not forget this hasn't inflated the economy as much as other things *cough* armbrace dupe *cough*
at the end of the day it is arenanets game and this whole thread is premature as we have no idea what they will do to sf.
also dont rage on regina when it happens because she can only relate our fellings to anet not make changes.

own age myname · Feb 15, 2010, 01:25 PM // 13:25

The main thing I'm going to miss is FoWSC, because it's one of the few times in the game that I actually PUG.

chessyang · Feb 15, 2010, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustache Mayhem

guys like rachtoh made guides on farming spiders for shards in fow solo.. that was pretty ingeniuous.. there was alot of fun in finding ways to solo elite areas of the game

ahh yes Rachtoh and Don't No Feel Pain. Miss there post here on the forums and farm builds.

Good read Mustache. thank you for the post. I miss those old days to. but you know with each turn of skill things change ppl come and go and will find a new build.

I'm a solo player and when Diablo 3 comes out and even GW2 i'll go still go Solo. it's just my style and the way i want to play these game.

Whatever happens to Shadow Form will pass and we will "recall the good old days of Solo'ing dungeons and UW.. etc.."

Tom Swift · Feb 15, 2010, 02:54 PM // 14:54

SF will pass, and probably should.

But absolutely nothing will turn this game back into a multiplayer game. It is now and will be until the end a solo game with occasional multiplayer aspects.

Accept it. Live with it.

Kaleban · Feb 15, 2010, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

SF will pass, and probably should.

But absolutely nothing will turn this game back into a multiplayer game. It is now and will be until the end a solo game with occasional multiplayer aspects.

Accept it. Live with it.

But that doesn't make any sense.

If ANet accepts the notion that new blood in GW is very scarce, and that the game has rapidly devolved into a solo player game (through consets, heroes and such), then removing options in the PvE environment that allow for solo play (either the PC by him or herself for farming purposes, or as the single player in a hero/hench party) will do nothing but harm the game's current userbase, and possibly detract new players from sticking with the game.

If on the other hand ANet is blindly devoted to denying the obvious, that GW1 has passed its prime, then I can see why they'd continue to try to "balance" PvE, which is a fool's errand from the get go. Their concept of balance has always been to make each character equally fast at killing, but since several of the classes don't function that way, their efforts were doomed from the start.

Personally, I don't really care what happens anymore. With the bugs that seem to hit every "event" apparent, and needing to do a "redux" each time, it shows that whoever is left actually working on GW1 is severely out of their league. This game has rapidly devolved from the high concept it began with, into something akin to SWG or Runescape.

What ANet should focus on is player retention and making the game fun for everyone. That requires acknowledging the current state of play that they created, by seeing the effects consets and customizable heroes have had on player parties, and the fact that H/H is the dominant form of PvE now.

If they really want to make it fun and interesting, they should do what their parent game, Diablo 2 did. Randomize everything, allow ectos to drop from regular spawns in various areas of ascalon, etc.